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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Electric Smart Test Drive

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAlmostInvisibleMan View Post
    Iím unconvinced about the savings

    This is an interesting page with suggested figures at the bottom, whilst it says some charging points are free, home (slow) charging is the cheapest, the fast chargers out in the field are the dearest with: a charging time charge, a consumption charge and a connection fee.

    https://www.zap-map.com/charge-point...harging-guide/
    Even that page implies that public charging 'fuel' will cost half that for petrol/diesel.
    (On top of that your maintenance costs are far less.)
    Last edited by dpmike; 13th November 2018 at 17:16.
    2016, ForTwo cabriolet, 900 turbo, DCT, Prime Premium, unmodified.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Electric Smart Test Drive

    Quote Originally Posted by dpmike View Post
    Even that page implies that public charging 'fuel' will cost half that for petrol/diesel.
    (On top of that your maintenance costs are far less.)
    Until the battery goes naff.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Electric Smart Test Drive

    Car batteries is another area of muddled thinking. People are assuming that because there is lithium in the name these are like your phone battery and will need changing after a few years. This is just wrong. Leaving aside the Nissan Leaf, which uses a rather poor battery design (cheap) most car batteries can be expected to last the life of the vehicle. Many manufacturers are currently giving 8 years battery warranty and they wouldn't do that without a reasonable expectation it won't be needed often.
    Lol
    http://www.thesmartclub.com/board/sh...ry-replacement

    Yes heís getting it done under warranty, but still ... proves they certainly arenít bullet proof

    And this model is Lithium Ion , same as most phone batteries.
    fq101.co.uk

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Electric Smart Test Drive

    In my mind, I always compare a high voltage EV battery failure/replacement to the equivalent of internal combustion engine failure (although technically not a like-for-like scenario). Thankfully both are quite rare caused by defects in materials or workmanship, but it can happen to either - sometimes within the warranty, sometimes outside the warranty.

    Given the choice though, I'd rather opt for the electric motor and battery. Just a few moving parts compared to thousands in an internal combustion engine that all need to be constantly lubricated, cooled and fed bucket loads of expensive liquid. EVs have their downsides too, but so do petrol and diesel engines in other ways.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Electric Smart Test Drive

    IC engines can be mended whatever is wrong with them, batteries cannot.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Electric Smart Test Drive

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolinor View Post
    IC engines can be mended whatever is wrong with them, batteries cannot.
    That is an iffy statement. Anything can be mended but these days the economics and inconvenience of doing so mean that replacement is often the chosen option.
    This is how the vast majority deal with their personal transport - not the small number of diehard petrol heads who will spend a week stripping and rebuilding a worn engine.

    'Repairable' faults on ice car drive-trains will most likely be ones that would never happen with electric, as commented by mccsmart2002 above.
    As always there will be horror stories and urban myths around new systems - mobile phones had their share - and BEVs are no exception.
    2016, ForTwo cabriolet, 900 turbo, DCT, Prime Premium, unmodified.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Electric Smart Test Drive

    Lithium batteries, whatever the specific chemistry cannot be mended, they can only be replaced.

    It would be nice to be able to rebuild an IC in a week. I have just spent one year and £2000 rebuilding a TDV6 engine for a Land Rover.

    I didn't comment on the viability or sense of rebuilding engines, I merely stated that they can always be rebuilt but batteries cannot.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Electric Smart Test Drive

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolinor View Post
    Lithium batteries, whatever the specific chemistry cannot be mended, they can only be replaced.

    It would be nice to be able to rebuild an IC in a week. I have just spent one year and £2000 rebuilding a TDV6 engine for a Land Rover.

    I didn't comment on the viability or sense of rebuilding engines, I merely stated that they can always be rebuilt but batteries cannot.
    Repairing a faulty engine (or gearbox) usually involves replacing faulty parts with new. A faulty battery will often have just one or a few faulty cells which could also be replaced. In both cases it's a specialist job, so for the average punter the unit is replaced.
    An engine or battery that is worn out through long use would need so many bits replacing that in either case they are often scrapped/recycled. However, ev batteries that are no longer up to the task of driving a vehicle (due to reduced range, etc) do in fact have a lot of life left and there are various projects that are repurposing them for a second life in static power storage where the demands are lower.

    Obviously this is all very new and how this will work in the longer term is yet to pan out, but in the future it should not be a case of 'throwing away' an old battery and buying a new one - there should be value in the old one to offset the replacement. There might even be a second-hand market - a battery from a car used to do long trips each day which is no longer up to that could be sold on to someone who only needs to do short journeys. (Realistically that is going to be limited by the physical compatibility of packs, but as with engine rebuilders, specialists may spring up who will repackage part used cells into different cases.)

    Like it or not, EVs are coming and interesting times are ahead (and Brexit too ).
    2016, ForTwo cabriolet, 900 turbo, DCT, Prime Premium, unmodified.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Electric Smart Test Drive

    A faulty cell will always be a faulty cell and cannot be mended, it can only be recycled. My Prius battery went faulty maybe ten years ago and the only official option available was a new battery. I mended it, the fault was that Toyota had issued a service bulletin stating that the holes where the connections came out were to be re-sealed using an epoxy compound. That compound began conducting after a few years so I just cleaned it all and the battery was fine again for at least another six years, until my dad totalled the car. My electric motorbike threw one of the batteries, again, no option to repair, just scrap and replace. So far my electric bike hasn't done 'owt wrong but I have only had it a year or two.

    There is never a necessity to replace any parts for new on an IC engine, it is only the financial or time aspect that makes us do it.

    Come Armageddon it will be IC engines that remain, electric will just drift away but I think we will possibly have other things to worry about if it happens.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Electric Smart Test Drive

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolinor View Post
    Lithium batteries, whatever the specific chemistry cannot be mended, they can only be replaced.

    It would be nice to be able to rebuild an IC in a week. I have just spent one year and £2000 rebuilding a TDV6 engine for a Land Rover.

    I didn't comment on the viability or sense of rebuilding engines, I merely stated that they can always be rebuilt but batteries cannot.
    Electric car Batteries can be rebuilt, in much the same way as an IC engine, replacing specific duff cells..
    Manufacture wouldnít do this as the vehicle is presented at the dealership... they would swap the whole pack of batteries.
    They should be looking at the bigger picture and making these car packs into slightly smaller packs (so a dealership can replace a smaller subset of cells.)

    They donít fail en-masse, itís just a collection of smaller cells, it might take some labour, but so would digging into an IC engine.
    It wouldnít be an ideal repair in my mind though as youíre mixing fresh cells with partly worn ones.
    fq101.co.uk

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